Society is changing with the development of artificial intelligence ( AI ), and social problems are naturally changing along with it. As social problems such as the climate crisis and unequal labor appear to be worsening, questions are being raised as to whether technology is truly effective. Rather, there is great concern that the digital world has degenerated into a new arena of crime and that there is no appropriate means to sanction it. We met Cho Kyeong-sook, a tech-feminist activist who is busy in various fields, including as a
freelance developer , an activist for the IT support group ‘Women do IT’ at the Teen Women’s Human Rights Center, an IT expert member of the Korea Women’s Hotline, and an activist for ‘ Sluggish Hackers’ .
Activist Cho is voicing his voice by participating in various activities to respond not only to problems in the development industry but also to digital sexual violence issues. She also recently published her book, Access Denied, a compilation of related columns. She reorganized her interview with him into a Q&A.
– I graduated from the Department of Korean Language and Literature and went to work in the IT industry. Why did you choose development?
“At that time, SI companies hired a lot of non -IT majors. At that time, for example, I thought it would be better to teach technical knowledge to journalists rather than creating a system by recruiting IT technicians from media companies and teaching them article writing and editing procedures. I also felt that way. I entered the industry. I originally liked games since I was in middle school and high school. When I play games, isn’t that a guild? (Laughs)? From then on, I taught myself and created a guild website. And my original dream was to be a novelist, but when I went to the Department of Korean Literature, I realized I didn’t have the talent. “I felt it, and since I used to create campaign sites when I was active at school, I thought, ‘Let’s go out this way.’”
– Recently, labor unions have been established one by one in IT companies. There were also social issues raised about labor practices such as ***crunch mode. Do you think things have changed?
“Rather than improving, the situation has changed. In the past, physical time pressure was so severe that there was a lot of overtime work. Recently, workers are made to voluntarily work overtime in the name of flexible work. Rather, workers say, ‘Even though they can fully control their hours, they do not work.’ I start to think, ‘The reason I am doing so much is because of my ability.’ As technology develops faster, there is greater pressure to continue studying.
People think that most developers earn six-figure salaries, but such star developers are few and the gap between rich and poor is wide. In addition, services are not only developed, but there are also developers who maintain and repair the service, but this labor is not properly highlighted. Also, although many unions have been created, there are still no unions in the SI industry.
” – Recently, Naver and Kakao are changing their post management policies to regulate hate speech. Are there any areas that have not yet been improved? “KakaoTalk
Profile Photos (profile pictures) can be captured, which are used for sexual crimes using deepfake technology. I have been requesting to block this function since I was working as an IT support group member at the Teenage Women’s Human Rights Center, but it has still not been reflected. It’s not that it’s technically impossible. Services like Kakao Webtoon cannot capture the screen. Because there is a copyright issue. Rather than creating a Bill of Rights to regulate hate speech, why not just improve the functionality?”
– There have been so many different stories related to artificial intelligence. What problems do you think are serious?
“There are so many issues that I don’t know where to start. In the past, when the controversy over ‘Iruda (artificial intelligence chatbot)’ was going on, artificial intelligence ethics were discussed only as principles that developers must adhere to. However, looking at recent trends, user ethics are required. Artificial Intelligence Chatbot There are quite a few users who use intelligence to create nude photos of women and upload them to their web hard drives. They use generative artificial intelligence to create nude photos for each occupation. There are also companies that fire workers while using artificial intelligence services. Looking at it this way, user ethics is also a problem that is connected to labor issues.
Above all, it is an industry consensus that the development of artificial intelligence will accelerate the climate crisis. In the digital world, there is no physical object, only data, so it feels as if resources are not wasted. It’s just a hallucinatory effect. When the server runs, heat is generated, so coolant is used. There is also a study that shows that 500 ml of bottled water is needed when you ask a question in Chat GPT , and the Google data center in Dallas, Oregon, USA, estimates the amount of water used in the area. There are also reports that we use more than a quarter of the water. ****Some even say that we will dry up and die first because we will use up all the water before general-purpose artificial intelligence comes out. Is artificial intelligence that useful to us to that extent? We need to think again.”
– What are other pressing issues?
“I would like to point out the labor issue of ‘data labeling’. In order to provide identifiable data to artificial intelligence, for example, when entering a photo of a person, microlabor is used to determine where the eyes and mouth are .am. It is also called ‘attaching digital doll eyes’, but it is better to attach doll eyes. If you add a few numbers, you can predict how much you will receive. In data labeling, the amount a worker will receive is later calculated based on the suitability decision. Moreover, even if the actual working time is 15 minutes, you may have to wait an hour for the work to arrive. These days, in Korea, the Women’s Human Resources Development Center (Women’s New Work Center) trains experienced women and others on this kind of work. How will this help you later in your career? “It is problematic to provide such support in the public sector.”
– It is impressive that there is a lot of collaboration with civil society.
“When I was in school, I was active in the Women’s Student Council, and many of my friends who I was active with went to women’s organizations. So at first, I worked with a group at the personal request of my friends. Then, my friend stopped working, but the organization continued to contact me. Also, since I am very interested in social issues, the number of organizations I support has increased, and when I find out about the difficulties faced by the organization, I help them… In the end, this is all nonsense (laughter). Since most non-profit organizations are poor, I have to do things like manage sponsor members,
etc. We can’t put effort into the internal system, so we shorten the actual work by helping with system management such as managing sponsor members, issuing donation receipts, etc. One of the introductory phrases of Slugish Hackers is ‘Let’s fight the world by reducing the time we spend fighting Excel. ‘.
And in the past, in civil society , IT was a tool for solving problems. However, starting with the N Room incident (Telegram sexual exploitation incident), the paradigm changed to say that ‘digital is the site of the problem’. Various sexual violence and sexual exploitation “As this took place in the digital space, women’s organizations began collaborating a lot with engineers, especially female developers. At the same time, I also became more active with organizations.”
– I think I learned a lot of new things from civic groups while collaborating, and on the other hand, I think there are also some things I regret or worry about.
“I didn’t know there was so much digital sexual exploitation. When I monitored it, I found that a woman’s ID photo was posted on a personal Internet broadcast, and the woman was selling personal information while talking about how good she was at having sex.How much is a social media account, how much is a phone number, how much is a home address… . It was really shocking, but activists said this was always being broadcast. A lot of my love for humanity was gone (laughter), and that was the first time I thought about it. ‘How can I respond if sexual exploitation occurs in the service I developed?’
On the other hand, there is also something to worry about: people around me criticize me for ruining the ecosystem in the long run if I do group development work for free or for a small amount of money. That is correct. However, the organization is in a situation where it can only provide that much cost. I’m still worried. I hope organizations will think together about how non-profit organizations and developers can connect while respecting each other’s labor.” – Not only do we
support the work of organizations, but we also work by creating communities with other developers.
“We have been active in guilds and clubs since high school . Since I did it, community activity seems to be the default. And the good thing about this type of activity is that authority and responsibility are not concentrated on one person. Because we make decisions together and take responsibility together, the burden of risk seems to decrease and our imagination expands. Of course, there were difficulties in communicating like that, but we were willing to spend those costs if we could become stronger.” – According to the
book, “In the past, I was afraid of being caught by the company, but now I have become a campaigner trying to change society and the law, and I have changed my name. There is a phrase that says, “I write what I want to write.” What prompted this change of heart?
“I went on parental leave at my previous company and was fired. There was a plan to reduce manpower, but they selected those on parental leave and fired them. So I went around publicizing this fact. I submitted a letter to the National Assembly’s office, and they showed interest, and although I did not choose to return to work, I did not choose to return to work. The employees were reinstated. After leaving the company, I felt that the company was not causing as much harm as I thought. So I decided to work under my real name. The funny thing is, people don’t know whether I write or write a book. That ‘Cho Kyung-sook’ “He didn’t think it was me. I guess people in this industry don’t read as much as I thought (laughs). So I thought I could do whatever I wanted.”
– He is a developer and activist, and also works as a comics critic먹튀검증. What is the driving force behind such diverse activities?
“I thought life was hard while working as a developer. As I accumulated unfair experiences, I wanted to solve it somehow. Then, after giving birth and raising my child, I stayed at home for about 6 months and was surprised to think, ‘I can be so disconnected from the world.’ I had a great fear of losing it, so I started writing diligently while reducing my sleep while my child was sleeping. It wasn’t a positive transition because I was afraid and anxious. But when I started doing that, I really enjoyed writing itself. I continued to write about anything, including comics reviews and technology reviews. “I thought I should write it.”
– The admonition you told yourself last year was ‘don’t study too much,’ but did you stick to it?
“Until last year, I was at my peak. I stayed up all night studying and doing projects. But early this year, I was diagnosed with thyroid cancer and had surgery in April. With that incident, I thought I needed to get rid of things I didn’t need, and I decided to relieve my obsession with studying new technologies. I was able to.”
– What activities do you want to do in the future?
“I want to go to graduate school and study how to solve the problem of digital sexual exploitation technologically. Recently, a crime similar to the N room occurred in Nepal, imitating Korea’s crime, and it led to human trafficking of girls. With a sense of responsibility, others “I also want to contribute to solving the problem of sexual exploitation in the country.”
※Terminology
* System Integration(System Integration) is a company that creates a system that integrates distributed information into a single view. Samsung SDS , LG CNS , and SK C&C are called the ‘Big 3’ in the SI industry.
** A type of group formed by several users in an online game
*** In the software development industry, continuing to work while sacrificing sleep, nutrition, and other social activities ahead of a deadline
**** Not only a specific problem, but also a given problem Technology or the study of computerized implementation of the ability to think, learn, and create in all situations. It is also called AGI ( Artificial General Intelligence ).